Sample Accurate CD copying with Max

Discuss Max, an open source CD audio extractor and audio converter.
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kp8
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:26 pm

Sample Accurate CD copying with Max

Post by kp8 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:33 pm

I have some CDs and CDRs that are either:

1. really old (and also possibly on unreliable media from the early days)
2. long long OOP
3. exceedingly rare
4. archival (give to me by the composer him/herself)

I would like to know what is the very best way to copy these audio CDs. Here best defined here as sample to sample 100% accurate audio data.

My goal is to copy them in such a way that the originals can be stored and copies can be put in different locations for safe keeping (i'll also probably burn Data CDs with disk images on them). I don't care about individual tracks, etc. I don't care how long it takes or how much space it uses, I just want to copy the CD accurately with gapless tracks preserved etc. Ideally i would be able to copy the CD and have it and all the P & Q codes, gaps, etc. be the same, with the only change being the possibility of using CD text when burning.

For this do you rip as Aiff as a single file with cue sheet? Additionally how would you then use this to make an disc image that Disk Utility.app can burn?

PS. Additionally: Which is the more accurate ripper: Comparison Ripper or cdparanoia?


Best,

Kevin

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sbooth
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Re: Sample Accurate CD copying with Max

Post by sbooth » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:52 am

If you are truly after sample-accurate ripping, Max isn't quite there yet. It does not support drive read offset correction, which is the biggest current limitation.

As far as P and Q codes go, I'm not aware of any CD ripper in existence that copies them in their entirety. CD+G discs would be the best example- there are programs to read the graphics but I'm not aware of a ripper that copies them along with the audio.

I'm currently developing a new project (Rip) that improves on many features of Max. Rip supports drive read offset correction, for example, and uses C2 error detection to help with accurate extraction.

As far as my experience with drives and audio extraction go, if your discs are in good condition then you shouldn't have much to worry about with either cdparanoia or the comparison ripper as long as you use a decent drive. I personally prefer the comparison ripper but cdparanoia is time-tested and reliable. I just have a feeling that the paranoia ripper can wear out drives.

kp8
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:26 pm

Re: Sample Accurate CD copying with Max

Post by kp8 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:20 am

I see... Then what would be the best solution available now for copying a CD as accurately as possible? I want an accurate as possible rip and I want to burn it so that the gaps are the same as the original, since some transitions are sure to be gapless. Should i rip as seperate files and a cue sheet? rip as a single file with a cue sheet? how is the cue sheet used when burning to replicate the gaps?

best,

Kevin

elduderino
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Re: Sample Accurate CD copying with Max

Post by elduderino » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:11 am

Wait a second, why are you focused on ripping/extraction when your goals call for duplication, not ripping/extraction???? I don't get it...why don't you simply make a disc image out of every disc and copy that image onto a new CD? This will result in an exact copy of the entirety of the disc. There will be no concern about differences in gaps, song quality, etc. etc. etc. etc. I used to do this all the time in my Windows days with Nero disc images of audio CD's, just copying them over to new CD's to make sure I was preserving for instance a concert CD perfectly. I'm sure Mac OSX image files will work the same way that Nero did, or better yet, use Toast for Mac to do this...they do image files perfectly.

Why bring a switchblade to a gun fight?

Please elaborate why you think you need to rip/extract the audio from these CD's when you seem to want to archive onto backup CDs?

RonaldPR
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Sample Accurate CD copying with Max

Post by RonaldPR » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:55 am

Maybe someone can enlighten me on this subject. I always thought that 'true' disk images, exact copies of the original disk, can only be made from data disks and that disk images from audio CDs (or copies from audio CDs) are in fact obtained be ripping the CD and writing again an audio CD image, or audio CD, even though software that creates audio CD images, or audio CD copies, usually does not show in its interface what actually happens.

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