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Discuss the current and future development of Max.
Mike1
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Post by Mike1 » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:16 pm

I had a set of odd characters recently with an album with Czech characters in. IIRC, the online database didn't have the correct characters in, but I used OS X's Character Palette to add them to Max before ripping/encoding. I encoded to FLAC and MP3. I can look at the Vorbis comment tags in the FLACs with Tag and they're just fine, but when I imported the MP3 files into iTunes (via File > Add to Library) some of the characters were not displaying properly. I guess this could well be something that happened during the import into iTunes.

FWIW, this was the album, and, for example,

V쒛ruju

displayed in iTunes as

V�ruju

(So somehow Unicode 011B has become Unicode 238B)

And

Agne쒍e Božij

displayed as

Agne e Bo~ij

I can't show properly here as this page uses iso-8859-1 not UTF-8, but anyway ...

Not Max at fault in this case I'd think, but there's some kind of weirdness going on somewhere in OS X here. I just included it for the sake of interest.

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Nils
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Post by Nils » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:44 am

sbooth wrote:... That is strange, because I tried with a Motley Crue album (it's not mine, I swear ;)) and the umlauts showed up correctly: Mötley Crüe. I will try with some different albums and see how things work.
I think I may have some more insight on what's going on. I just tried Nóirín Ní Riain - Vox de Nube to see if the same thing happened. The artist showed up in Max as Noirin Ni Riain and Glenstal Abbey Monks, which clearly seems to come from the Artist Aliases page. Looking at the album data on MB, it is not quite correct to begin with so I'll go change that presently (both Vox de Nube and The Darkest Midnight should have 'Nóirín Ní Riain and the Monks of Glenstal Abbey' as the full artist name). Why it happened on these cds and not Motley Crue I couldn't say. If it happens with any other cds I'll report it.
Hope that helps somewhat.

P.S. I forgot to mention this is with trunk revision 1014 (if it matters).

Mike1
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Post by Mike1 » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:51 am

Nils wrote:Looking at the album data on MB, it is not quite correct to begin with ...
Ah, and you'd simply failed to notice before when ripping. IIRC, you specifically mentioned some letters with umlauts, and though I imagine that any unicode character could potentially cause problems, FWIW, these seem to cause Max and iTunes no problems:

ä ö ü

I just ripped something in German to check. I was using the build that Stephen has listed as unstable - Max-995. Music Brainz listed the tracks incorrectly, using only ASCII characters. I inserted the correct characters from OS X's Character Palette; and after ripping and encoding, ä, ö, and ü were all present and correct in vorbis comment tags. They are also displaying correctly in iTunes.

One oddness I have noticed with Max-995 is that the genre tags have come through into iTunes as numbers even though I've selected "Use iTunes compatibility mode".

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sbooth
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Post by sbooth » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:41 am

Mike1 wrote:One oddness I have noticed with Max-995 is that the genre tags have come through into iTunes as numbers even though I've selected "Use iTunes compatibility mode".
Well, I guess that experiment failed! I had taken out the compatibility code for a check with iTunes, and I forgot to do the check. I will put it back in.

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Nils
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Post by Nils » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:44 pm

Mike1 wrote:Ah, and you'd simply failed to notice before when ripping. IIRC, you specifically mentioned some letters with umlauts, and though I imagine that any unicode character could potentially cause problems, FWIW, these seem to cause Max and iTunes no problems ...
Yeah, I didn't catch the errors right away, but the problem remains that Max is incorrectly retrieving the data that Musicbrainz does have.

'Nórín Ní Riain' on MB appeared in Max as 'Norin NiRiain' and
'Noirin Ni Riain & The Monks of Glenstal Abbey' on MB appeared in Max as 'Noirin Ni Riain and Glenstal Abbey Monks'.

Like you I don't really mind inserting the correct characters by hand, but it would be nice to correctly query MB to begin with. On the other hand if no one else is having it happen maybe this is just something isolated to me. :(

RonaldPR
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Post by RonaldPR » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:50 pm

I am a little confused about what is going on. Do I understand correctly that you changed (corrected) the information on MB?

In that case, are you sure that the information you see in Max is retrieved from MB and not from the cdinfo document that Max saved in ~/Library/Application Support/Max/ when the (incorrect) information was retrieved the first time?

Mike1
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:55 pm

Post by Mike1 » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:51 am

Nils wrote:... Max is incorrectly retrieving the data that Musicbrainz [has]
...

'Nórín Ní Riain' on MB appeared in Max as 'Norin NiRiain' and
'Noirin Ni Riain & The Monks of Glenstal Abbey' on MB appeared in Max as 'Noirin Ni Riain and Glenstal Abbey Monks'.
I find that implausible. I could believe that Max was mangling some unicode characters, after receiving the correct information from the database, but I find it difficult to conceive that Max would be dropping the "The" and changing the word order. And, after all, you have found this "alias" in Music Brainz's own database.

Do you know for certain that another tool other than Max that uses their API returns a different result for that particular CD?

I don't really know how these databases determines what information to send back on a request. I heard that it is based on the length of the tracks, since there is enough variation there for almost every CD to be unique. But I don't know if that's true. As for searching Music Brainz's database through the web interface by querying parameters such as "artist", I really don't know how useful that is. Here's what it returns for Berliner Philharmoniker:

http://musicbrainz.org/artist/dea28aa9- ... de1ce.html

One CD listed: "Perfume: The Story of a Murderer" [sic]

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Nils
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Post by Nils » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:33 pm

RonaldPR wrote:I am a little confused about what is going on. Do I understand correctly that you changed (corrected) the information on MB?

In that case, are you sure that the information you see in Max is retrieved from MB and not from the cdinfo document that Max saved in ~/Library/Application Support/Max/ when the (incorrect) information was retrieved the first time?
Yeah, I did correct the information on MB, but because of MB's voting system not all the changes have been applied yet. The changes that were applied immediately did show up correctly in Max when I used the MusicBrainz 'Query' button again so I'm fairly sure it's not coming from the cdinfo document.

Mike1 wrote:I find that implausible. I could believe that Max was mangling some unicode characters, after receiving the correct information from the database, but I find it difficult to conceive that Max would be dropping the "The" and changing the word order.
Maybe a better wording would have been 'Max is retrieving the incorrect piece of data from Musicbrainz'.
In any case, I'm not even sure if there is a problem. I'm just trying to report what is happening, and a hypothetical reason.
Mike1 wrote: And, after all, you have found this "alias" in Music Brainz's own database.
The aliases, as I understand them, are in the database to redirect to the correct artist name, not the other way around.
Mike1 wrote:I don't really know how these databases determines what information to send back on a request. I heard that it is based on the length of the tracks, since there is enough variation there for almost every CD to be unique. But I don't know if that's true. ...
Currently two systems are employed for identifying tracks: TRMs and PUIDs. I don't really understand how they work either, but they do seem to.
Mike1 wrote:As for searching Music Brainz's database through the web interface by querying parameters such as "artist", I really don't know how useful that is. Here's what it returns for Berliner Philharmoniker: http://musicbrainz.org/artist/dea28aa9- ... de1ce.html
One CD listed: "Perfume: The Story of a Murderer" [sic]
It looks like that may be the only cd currently in the MB database from the Berliner Philharmoniker. In which case someone who owns the other cds can add the rest to the database.

Maurits
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Location: London, Europe

Post by Maurits » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:49 am

OK, this error is gone now using build 1038. Using a Wav without metadata works and even the atoms appear 'optimized' (although moov being empty obviously so it is probably the basic atom order before metadata is written).

Sadly, on ripping from CD (so with metadata from MusicBrainz) it is replaced with:
An error occurred while tagging the file "xxxx.m4a".

Unable to optimize the file"xxxx.m4a".
Files are fine, can play and have metadata. The atoms are still in the wrong order though so no optimization has indeed occurred.

RonaldPR
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Post by RonaldPR » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:54 pm

A GUI imperfection still in rev1038: The preferences window is not wide enough to hold all icons (with their labels) visible in the toolbar. The "Post-Processing" icon falls off the side.

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