Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Discuss Max, an open source CD audio extractor and audio converter.
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jhart71
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:58 pm

Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by jhart71 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:50 am

OK - I am just about ready to start reripping my library. Can someone please take a look at these settings and let me know if everything looks OK? I'm ripping to Apple Lossless format for use in iTunes. The condition of my CDs is mostly average-to-above average.

Ripper - CDparanoia
Generate cue sheet
Required matches: 3 per sector (default)
Maximum retries: 20 (default)
Check for C2 errors (default)
Error correction: enabled
Type: Full paranoia
Never allow skipping

Now - my only questions are regarding the "Use SHA-256 for sector comparison" . . . should I have that clicked on? What does that do?

Any other suggestions are welcome . . . if there's something you'd recommend, please let me know. Thanks!

RonaldPR
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by RonaldPR » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:29 am

If you do not rip the CD to a single file, a cue sheet is of no use. Disable generating cue sheet.

The settings "Required matches", "Maximum retries", "Use SHA-256 for sector comparison", "Check for C2 errors" apply to using comparison ripper, they have no function while using "cdparanoia" ripping.

Never allowing skipping can lead to endless retries with certain damages on the CD. I always use the cdparanoia ripping set to "Full paranoia" and allowing skipping after 20 retries. If it does not work after 20 retries it will probably never work. You can double the setting to 40 if you wish.

Have you chosen and configured the desired output format (Apple Lossless)?

Have you checked that the default output location and location format is according to your wishes?

Try ripping one CD and see if the result is what you expected.

jhart71
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:58 pm

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by jhart71 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:37 am

Thanks for the feedback!

I want individual tracks, so I don't have "Rip to single file" clicked on. I've read that I should generate a Cue sheet just to have for the future (when re-assembling a whole album). Is that false?

"Check for C2 errors" was clicked ON by default, even with the CDParanoia ripper chosen. Should I click that off?

I will change the "allow skipping" back to 20 . . . the CDs I have aren't that bad, and don't skip anyway.

I'm ripping to Apple Lossless, using the 3 iTunes options (iTunes Compatibility, Add Output, and Playlist).

RonaldPR
Posts: 433
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by RonaldPR » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:03 pm

jhart71 wrote:I want individual tracks, so I don't have "Rip to single file" clicked on. I've read that I should generate a Cue sheet just to have for the future (when re-assembling a whole album). Is that false?
I do not know that. If I want to burn an album back to CD, I simply select the album and burn it as audio CD. It sounds to me just like the original. Maybe there are specific situations that need a cue sheet.
"Check for C2 errors" was clicked ON by default, even with the CDParanoia ripper chosen. Should I click that off?
The settings for comparison ripper are irrelevant while using cdparanoia. They are simply not used, regardless being checked or not.
I will change the "allow skipping" back to 20 . . . the CDs I have aren't that bad, and don't skip anyway.
The "skipping" in this setting is a different kind of skipping. It is skipping trying to correct the error. If it is set to 20, the ripper will stop trying when it has not succeeded after trying 20 times.

jhart71
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:58 pm

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by jhart71 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:36 pm

See, I was thinking like you - that I didn't need a Cue sheet. But then it was suggested that since I was starting new (from scratch) then it couldn't hurt to have them for the future. If I didn't need them, they'd just be extra files . . . but if I DID need them, I'd have them. Again, I was thinking like you that I would just burn CDs with Zero Seconds gap and they sound fine. I dunno, I'd never heard of Cue Sheets before this week, so obviously I wasn't missing them!

What ripper would you recommend? Sbooth says the vast majority use CDparanoia.

RonaldPR
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by RonaldPR » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:05 pm

I tried both, but with the comparison ripper too many ripped tracks contained artifacts from small damages on the CD. CD players used in audio equipment always use error correction methods to compensate for small problems, CD drives used in computers do not do that by themselves. It depends very much on the quality of your CDs and on the used CD drive what the results with the rippers will be. Using cdparanoia will usually give best overall results, but with pristine new high quality CDs the comparison ripper could (but not necessarily will) give better results, although you would probably not be able to hear the difference.

You are trying to set all settings at once in the blind for ripping all your CDs. You need to learn to use Max first, try a few CDs and see what happens.

Edit: The best settings for one user are not necessarily the best settings for other users. If there would be "best" settings, there would not be a choice of settings. Try and learn. And when you are confident that you have learned enough, then start ripping your whole CD collection.

jhart71
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:58 pm

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by jhart71 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:22 pm

I can say this: aside from maybe 3 dozen discs, my CDs are NOT pristine. Only the ones I've bought in the last year would be pristine (because I ripped them immediately into AAC and then put them away). They were never listened to on audio equipment or handled except for 1 time (to rip them).

I guess I'm confused how Comparison Rip and CDParanoia can yield different results . . . isn't the point that it's an exact copy of the CD information?

RonaldPR
Posts: 433
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by RonaldPR » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:01 pm

jhart71 wrote:I guess I'm confused how Comparison Rip and CDParanoia can yield different results . . . isn't the point that it's an exact copy of the CD information?
Only when the CD is absolutely 100% flawless, and the drive reads that CD absolutely 100% flawlessly, you will get an exact bit by bit copy of what the original information on the CD was supposed to be and there should be no difference between cdparanoia and comparison ripper. That ideal situation is rare. That is why all CD-players in audio equipment use error correction to ensure you can listen to the CD without being disturbed by the inevitable odd error on even the finest CD.

Simplified explanation about the rippers:
The comparison ripper will compare repeated readings and will decide that if a certain number of readings are identical, that is what the information should be. This way it can filter out incidental reading errors. But if the comparison ripper reads an error identically the required number of times, which can happen with a minimal scratch or stuck dust particle, it decides erroneously that the error is the correct information.
The cdparanoia ripper has means of correcting errors, using other information on the CD, to guess what the original information should have been when faulty or missing information is encountered. With small problems of only a few bits, the correction will not be noticeable while you listen to the music. With large corrections there may be an audible difference, but with such large errors the comparison ripper has absolutely no clue and you will hear disturbing artifacts.

Edit: In this respect there is a difference between audio CDs and for instance CD ROMs. CD ROMs contain much more elaborate means to correct errors and ensure that the files are being read correctly bit by bit. At the time, when specifications for audio CDs were established, no-one thought that one day there would be computer users obsessed with getting a bit by bit correct copy of their CDs. :wink:

jhart71
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:58 pm

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by jhart71 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:52 pm

OK - so if you were to generalize 1 set of settings for someone who wants just a secure ripping mode and the closest thing to the CD as possible, could you recommend just 1? I thought just CDParanoia and Error Correction would be more than enough.

For me, I'm not interested in changing settings for each disc. I want to set it once and keep it going. It's going to take long enough even without any variables.

I have read up on the ripping methods and really just want the one with the least chance of skips/pops/clicks. Up until last week, I had not even heard of Max . . . I was going to use iTunes to encode my entire CD library as Apple Lossless. Then someone recommended Max because it's more secure, and I've read what I could so far.

I want everything to sound like it does on the CD (with no clicks/pops, etc) but I'm not too concerned with algorithms and all that. I still want the process to be easy and fun. I haven't been that displeased with iTunes, but I have had some skips even on brand-new CDs.

I do see the benefits of having choices in ripping mode . . . I think I would rather err on the side of caution if that's possible.

RonaldPR
Posts: 433
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by RonaldPR » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:23 pm

jhart71 wrote:OK - so if you were to generalize 1 set of settings for someone who wants just a secure ripping mode and the closest thing to the CD as possible, could you recommend just 1? I thought just CDParanoia and Error Correction would be more than enough.
I already answered that. Use cdparanoia, error correction enabled, full paranoia, allow skipping after 20 retries. That will give the best overall results for most CDs. There are no settings with guaranteed success for each and every CD on each and every CD drive.

jhart71
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:58 pm

Re: Need Help Getting Started - Part 2

Post by jhart71 » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:04 am

Thanks RonaldPR for all your feedback! I really do appreciate it.

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