? info be imported to iTunes library when ripping WAV ?

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herman
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? info be imported to iTunes library when ripping WAV ?

Post by herman » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:52 am

I want to save everything as wave files.

When I use MAX it puts the songs into my iTunes folders just like iTunes does when I use it to rip, but nothing shows up in my library. That is worthless to me as the reason I went with iTunes was the library interface,

Is there any way to rip with MAX and have it show up in the iTunes library?

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sbooth
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Post by sbooth » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:14 am

Two replies to this issue-

1) Due to an oversight on my part, WAVE format files cannot be added to iTunes in Max 0.5.6. I've fixed the bug, and they will be in the next version (already in svn). Sorry about that!

2) For WAVE files imported into iTunes (with the next release of Max), there will not be any metadata for the files. This may change in the future, though this could possibly be overcome with some sort of AppleScript.

herman
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wow, prompt response

Post by herman » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:33 am

Thanks for the prompt response. Excuse my ignorance but I am just now beginning to explore this facet of computers using a USB DAC for playback so I don't completely understand your response.
1) Due to an oversight on my part, WAVE format files cannot be added to iTunes in Max 0.5.6. I've fixed the bug, and they will be in the next version (already in svn). Sorry about that!
Does this mean that the the info (artist, album, song title, etc.) will show up in my library just as if I had ripped wih iTunes?
) For WAVE files imported into iTunes (with the next release of Max), there will not be any metadata for the files. This may change in the future, though this could possibly be overcome with some sort of AppleScript.
I don't know what this means. Could you please explain or point to some links that discuss this?

I am anxious to get started I want the highest quality rip but don't want to start ripping if I can't access the album info. Since I'm just getting started, and MAX seems like a better ripper than iTunes, do you have any idea when the new version will be ready?

Thank you very much. I would like to contribute but can't translate or develop. What else can I do?

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Re: ? info be imported to iTunes library when ripping WAV ?

Post by sbooth » Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:19 am

herman wrote:I want to save everything as wave files.
Before we get too in-depth about Max's WAV handling and metadata (which would honestly be a short discussion because with Max and wave files there is no saved metadata), could you elaborate on why you would like to rip everything to the wave format?

I definitely agree with you that a lossless format is the way to go- establish an archive and transcode as needed to the lossy format of the week.

That being said, I recommend that you rip to a format that contains metadata. Using a file format containing metadata will allow you to move files around to different players, computers, etc, without losing any of the saved track and album information. If you use Max to create wave files and copy them to a different machine none of your metadata will show up.

As an added bonus, other lossless formats will compress the audio and save you hard drive space over wave.

Anyway, regarding format choice, if you could be persuaded to go with something besides wave, I personally like FLAC. Monkey's Audio or Apple Lossless work just as well, though. I like FLAC because it is open-source and prevalent, so you know that you will be able to read and use your files on basically any software platform and many hardware platforms well into the future. FLAC also supports flexible metadata (but no album art- this must be saved separately).

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Post by herman » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:59 pm

could you elaborate on why you would like to rip everything to the wave format?
I have agonized over this for quite awhile.

I bought a Mac mini to be the heart of a hard drive based server. I chose this because of the extremely cool interface with remote http://www.apple.com/imac/frontrow.html and how easy iTunes is to use.

I then send the data to a very good USB DAC hooked up to a rather high end stereo system so my main concern beyond ease of use is getting the best data to the USB DAC.

I have read many discussions that claim that using any lossless format instead of wav files will comprimise sound quality. I know that in one sense that lossless should be exactly the same as wav once reconstructed, and I suppose it is, but the claim is that somehow the process of decoding on the fly for playback alters things.

Saving everything in the native format leaves no doubt that you have the best data as long as you get a good rip, that is where MAX comes in, but I would love to have the data attached to the file so a lossless format would be great. . On the other hand I would hate to find out that after I took the time to rip over a 1,000 CDs to hard drives that a lossless format did indeed lead to poorer sound quality. . I'm not so much worried about saving space with hard drives being so cheap

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Post by sbooth » Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:13 pm

herman wrote:I have read many discussions that claim that using any lossless format instead of wav files will comprimise sound quality. I know that in one sense that lossless should be exactly the same as wav once reconstructed, and I suppose it is, but the claim is that somehow the process of decoding on the fly for playback alters things.
I am certainly no expert in this area, but it's hard for me to believe that decoding on the fly could affect the audio quality on a modern machine where speed isn't much of an issue. I would be curious to know more about this!

In any case, to answer your original question, the current version of Max (0.5.6) cannot import wave files directly into iTunes for you- you would have to manually import the waves yourself. This is due to an oversight on my part.

The next version (0.5.7) will support automatically importing wave files into iTunes- but the metadata will not be imported. This is because the waves that Max generates do not contain metadata.

The lack of metadata for waves is something that could be remedied with a lengthy AppleScript solution to manually set the file's properties in iTunes, but it would be a pain.

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Post by herman » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:01 pm

it's hard for me to believe that decoding on the fly could affect the audio quality on a modern machine where speed isn't much of an issue. I would be curious to know more about this!
Me too. I am going to rip the same songs using Max and several formats and itunes ripper using the same somgs and formats and see what if anything sounds different.

I'll report back.

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Post by herman » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:40 am

OK, I've tried ripping wav and apple lossless with both MAX and iTunes on a few songs and compared. It all sounds the same to me and my system has pretty good resolution.

Given that, I would prefer to use Apple lossless via MAX since even though it takes longer has better error correction/detection, BUT so far I can't get it to appear in my iTunes library. Apple lossless via iTunes does and adds the album to my library but MAX does not. MAX stores it in my music folder and I can play it but it does not show up in my library. I can't even get iTunes to add it to my library.

I checked the prefrence in MAX to "use iTunes compatibility mode" and to "add encoded files to the iTunes library." If I rip in mp3 it does show up in the library.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

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sbooth
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Post by sbooth » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:02 am

herman wrote:I would prefer to use Apple lossless via MAX since even though it takes longer has better error correction/detection, BUT so far I can't get it to appear in my iTunes library. Apple lossless via iTunes does and adds the album to my library but MAX does not. MAX stores it in my music folder and I can play it but it does not show up in my library. I can't even get iTunes to add it to my library.

I checked the prefrence in MAX to "use iTunes compatibility mode" and to "add encoded files to the iTunes library." If I rip in mp3 it does show up in the library.
This is very strange- I just did a test on my machine (PowerBook G4) and I was able to rip to Apple Lossless and the track added automatically to iTunes with no problems.

You are getting valid Apple Lossless files that open and play in iTunes? All the metadata is there and correct?

herman
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Post by herman » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:25 am

You are getting valid Apple Lossless files that open and play in iTunes?
yes, but I have to go into the directory where they are stored to play them.
All the metadata is there and correct?
How can I determine this?

Hey, I believe I have solved the problem.

I had chosen Apple lossless in each aplication. I couldn't find any info so I chose the first Apple lossless I could find, In MAX I had chosen CAF audio - apple lossless.

In iTunes I saw it stored as filename.m4a, when I "get info" it says under the general section that it is an MPEG-4 audio file and under "more info" it says codecs: Apple lossless. Is that correct for Apple lossless?

When I look at the file stored by MAX, it stores it as filename.caf, when I "get info" it says under the general section that it is CAF audio, and under "more info" there is no codecs info.

I then switched MAX to mpeg4 audio - apple lossless.

It now works as I expected. I just want to make sure that mpeg4 audio with apple lossless is the correct format for truly getting a lossless format.

In preferences - formats - encoder settings does Quality affect anything since the format is lossless?

Thanks again for your assistance,

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Post by sbooth » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:07 pm

herman wrote:It now works as I expected. I just want to make sure that mpeg4 audio with apple lossless is the correct format for truly getting a lossless format.

In preferences - formats - encoder settings does Quality affect anything since the format is lossless?
MPEG4 Audio - Apple Lossless and CAF - Apple Lossless are both true lossless formats. It's just that for the former the Apple Lossless is stored in an MPEG4 container, vs. a CAF container. It's similar to the difference between native FLAC and Ogg FLAC.

For iTunes you want the MPEG4 Audio - Apple Lossless selected.

The quality doesn't affect anything- it is settable but has no effect (it will always be lossless regardless of settings).

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davebarnes
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Post by davebarnes » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:14 am

herman,

I would not chose Apple Lossless. I would chose FLAC for my lossless format as it is open source.

I thought about this issue for a few months before I started ripping.
I now rip to FLAC (and AAC for iTunes) for long-term archival storage.

,dave
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herman
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Post by herman » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:49 am

Thanks for the input Dave, but since I have chosen iTunes on a Mac that does not directly support FLAC I don't see a way to easily implement it. Besides, I can't imagine Apple going under at this point and losing support for the format.


Are you really as cheerful as your picture suggests :>)

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Post by davebarnes » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:41 pm

herman,

One of us is confused.

I rip to both FLAC and AAC.
FLAC for long term storage of music.
AAC for playing in iTunes.

I then put the CD into (literally) cold dark storage (in my wine cellar).

,dave
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herman
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Post by herman » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:41 pm

It may be me who is confused :shock: , but isn't AAC a lossy format? My goal is the highest quality digital data to feed the USB DAC in my stereo system so anything with a loss is not an option. If this correct, I see no reason to rip and store 2 lossless formats, FLAC which iTunes won't play and Apple lossless which it will.

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